tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post8622887701252041863..comments2023-09-02T07:14:49.753-04:00Comments on Atheism And The City: Alvin Plantinga's Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism (EAAN) Part 1Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-21167777468253317972013-05-18T21:10:42.833-04:002013-05-18T21:10:42.833-04:00Mann is totally hopeless. He asserts that there ex...Mann is totally hopeless. He asserts that there exists no transitional fossils, then I send him a list of transitional fossils and I ask him to refute their validity. Then he says he can't because he's not a biologist. That's creationist logic 101 for you. The Thinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303015383137218932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-16998398579079951522013-05-14T13:57:09.806-04:002013-05-14T13:57:09.806-04:00Mann: We would instead suppose that evolution wouo...<b>Mann: We would instead suppose that evolution wouold select in favor of a brain that could see reality as it is.</b><br />Seeing reality as it is is hard - it took thousands of years to come up with quantum mechanics.<br />Rather, a brain which can apply generally useful heuristics which are usually good at discerning what is real, and do so in real time, provides an advantage over a brain that see's reality as it is, but cannot react in real time.<br />As such, we detect agency where there is none - anyone who has been startled by the wind rustling leaves is familiar with this. Far better to react quickly with false positives, than to ignore the possible predator lurking in the grass.<br /><br /><b>Mann: However, according to naturalists, a belief in God represents a distortion of reality.</b><br />Well, since god doesn't exist, a belief in god is more accurately a delusion.<br />The belief in gods and spirits can be explained by the same false positive producing agency detection described above.<br /><br /><b>Mann: Perhaps instead, such a believe confers survival value then and also now, as many studies demonstrate.</b><br />Even if it did confer survival advantage, that doesn't make it true - you're committing the naturalistic fallacy.Rianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08021810579773953296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-4527039346453091632013-05-12T19:05:54.110-04:002013-05-12T19:05:54.110-04:00You could call this Mike's evolutionary argume...You could call this Mike's evolutionary argument against god (EAAG)!The Thinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303015383137218932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-91355392593583723232013-05-12T18:56:43.827-04:002013-05-12T18:56:43.827-04:00Even if I granted you that scenario, there's s...Even if I granted you that scenario, there's still no need to invoke divine intervention anywhere. Plus, you'd still have to make the case that there was a bottleneck of two people. And you'd have to explain what caused the bottleneck. Did your perfectly loving god cause a disease or a massive volcano so that he could actualize his plan of withering down the population to just two "people"? Some god that would be.<br /><br />You know our debating got me thinking about atheistic syllogisms. I just quickly thought of one based on the debating we've been having. I haven't refined it yet and it's a first draft but please tell me what you think of this argument below:<br /><br />1. If god chose to use evolution as the method of creating human beings and all other forms of life, then god knowingly chose the method that requires the greatest amount of suffering.<br />2. If humans are the product of gradual evolution guided by god, humans must have acquired souls at some point during the process.<br />3. Once human beings had souls, they could be rewarded in an afterlife for the suffering they endured while they were alive.<br />4. If higher level primates are capable of third order pain awareness (knowing they are experiencing pain) then our pre-human hominid ancestors did too and they did not have souls.<br />5. Therefore god chose to create humans using a method that knowingly would involve conscious suffering that was not logically necessary.<br />6. An all-good, perfectly moral god who is incapable of unwarranted cruelty would not create beings that could consciously suffer in a way that was not logically necessary.<br />7. Therefore, the traditional notion of god who is all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good does not exist.<br /><br />For premise two, even if you believe that fully rational humans appeared at once, we still have enough evidence that our hominid ancestors and cousins like Neanderthals had language capability and that means they certainly had higher functioning cognitive rational faculties than modern day chimps and gorillas. <br /><br />Please tell me what you think.The Thinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303015383137218932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-34401873198673351002013-05-12T10:57:31.278-04:002013-05-12T10:57:31.278-04:00That you will have to show. It isn't clear to ...That you will have to show. It isn't clear to me that it does.<br /><br />Also, again, if human beings do have subsistent rational souls, then there was plausibly a first man born from a non-human specimen. Even Richard Dawkins conceded the possibility of something like that in his discussion with Rowan Williams, when they came to the point about language acquisition. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-59786175051828829562013-05-11T22:11:55.240-04:002013-05-11T22:11:55.240-04:00Yes, evolution does favor false positives which ex...Yes, evolution does favor false positives which explains why we have religions and superstitious beliefs. But, evolution also selects for accurate cognition which can discern what is false from what is true. The Thinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303015383137218932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-15520932179254604142013-05-11T12:57:25.665-04:002013-05-11T12:57:25.665-04:00I find it interesting that evolution - it select t...I find it interesting that evolution - it select those traits that provide a survival advantage - would selecrt in favor of God. We would instead suppose that evolution wouold select in favor of a brain that could see reality as it is. However, according to naturalists, a belief in God represents a distortion of reality. Perhaps instead, such a believe confers survival value then and also now, as many studies demonstrate.Daniel Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13952453459481872105noreply@blogger.com