tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post3792358312661699000..comments2023-09-02T07:14:49.753-04:00Comments on Atheism And The City: How To Talk To A Christian: Debating Materialism & Free WillUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-23443496157662328612013-01-14T04:38:09.164-05:002013-01-14T04:38:09.164-05:00Pretty much. As you have greater numbers of quantu...Pretty much. As you have greater numbers of quantum particles, the quantum effects become smaller, and the uncertainty decreases.<br /><br />It's also more of an operational issue rather than an in principle problem (or at least can be thought of that way).<br /><br />Basically, when you measure some property of a particle (position or momentum are usually used) you're hitting the particle with another particle (often a photon). This obviously effects the initial particle. If the thing you're measuring is a large collection of particles, then hitting them with a photon is going to have less of an effect.<br /><br />That's how I understand it, anyway :-)Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-46770328938171764882013-01-12T16:55:01.390-05:002013-01-12T16:55:01.390-05:00What about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, d...What about the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, does that only apply at the quantum level?The Thinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303015383137218932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-33720766510266744072013-01-09T20:05:00.808-05:002013-01-09T20:05:00.808-05:00I guess I'm a determinist as far as quantum me...I guess I'm a determinist as far as quantum mechanics is deterministic (I think the term is statistically deterministic).<br />As far as macro-events (such as those at the scale of our brains) are concerned, our current understanding is enough to basically declare it deterministic I think, though there are still events that are indeterminate (such as the radioactive decay of a single atom) but in the aggregate all of these end up being deterministic for our purposes (the half life of a mass of radioactive atoms).<br /><br />As I mentioned above, indeterminism doesn't quite get you the sort of "choice" that is required for "classic" free will, which explains the compatibalists and deniers of free will out there :-)Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-12419404234620124862013-01-09T12:49:21.026-05:002013-01-09T12:49:21.026-05:00I'm noticing quite a large number of naturalis...I'm noticing quite a large number of naturalists are determinists. I'm not prepared yet to dive into total determinism but it is interesting to note. The Thinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303015383137218932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-57764610274337067222013-01-07T18:28:00.284-05:002013-01-07T18:28:00.284-05:00Basically it doesn't. Brains are, for all inte...Basically it doesn't. Brains are, for all intents and purposes, classical systems, and quantum "weirdness" doesn't seem to play a role in their functioning (of course, they're still quantum).<br /><br />And, even if brains were subject to quantum weirdness, or somehow amplified the quantum indeterminacy/probabilities and subsequently made use of this in it's normal processing, all you'd get would basically be random noise being introduced, not the sort of "decision making" mechanism that would be required for some sort of libertarian free will (you'd be in the same boat as dualist libertarian's, as pointed out above) :-)Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-3577890607490033482013-01-07T08:33:59.386-05:002013-01-07T08:33:59.386-05:00Well I always knew I was meant to be an atheist.
...Well I always knew I was meant to be an atheist. <br /><br />But how does quantum indeterminacy relate to our brains being deterministic? Is there any correlation? The Thinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303015383137218932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-77792789862170537142013-01-06T16:43:41.742-05:002013-01-06T16:43:41.742-05:00A short blog post concerning the problem of "...A short blog post concerning the problem of "present luck" related to libertarian free will, which highlights the problem I mention above: <a href="http://philosophicaldisquisitions.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/present-luck-and-little-agents.html" rel="nofollow">Present Luck and Little Agents</a>Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-36513271277251469612013-01-06T16:38:51.879-05:002013-01-06T16:38:51.879-05:00Michael: If this is true (and I am not 100% certa...<b>Michael: If this is true (and I am not 100% certain it is) that matter is not determined and predicable but rather probable, then it can be assumed that my actions and decisions are made free of antecedent physical events.</b><br />As I sketched above regarding contra-causal free will, a lack of determinism does not automatically result in some place for "free" choices of the sort you seem to be suggesting.<br /><br />Also, though quantum events appear to be probabalistic, events on the scale of brain structures are classical, and therefore deterministic, and so we can have confidence that our brains are deterministic. As is argued by compatibalists, some sort of deterministic free will, where our choices are the result of rational deliberation rather than some undetermined (and therefore essentially random) choice is the sort of free will we should want to possess.Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-64673468111942184902013-01-06T16:15:11.372-05:002013-01-06T16:15:11.372-05:00Ps. Good luck with your continuing discussions wit...Ps. Good luck with your continuing discussions with Daniel.Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7110460687773644977.post-90342525484458286472013-01-06T16:11:49.174-05:002013-01-06T16:11:49.174-05:00I think it's important, when discussing free w...I think it's important, when discussing free will with someone who asserts the existence of contra-causal/libertarian free will, is to point out it's incoherence.<br />If, as is required by contra-causal free will, we could have done otherwise given the exact same circumstances, then our experiences, our personalities, our moral outlook are not determinative of our decisions. This means that our choices are strictly undetermined, and are therefore basically random in nature. If contra-causal free will were true, then when going to buy a loaf of bread, you would be just as likely to steal it - the fact that you want to abide by the law, and have sufficient funds do not determine your decision to purchase or steal the loaf of bread.<br /><br />Havokhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05770427187548083625noreply@blogger.com