Tuesday, June 18, 2013

A Short YouTube Debate I Had With A Creationist On God's Nature

YouTube comments can be pretty harsh, but they can also be fun if you've got a few minutes to "debate" with ridiculous theists. It seems both sides of the god debate are fond of uploading their propagandist videos. I was watching a video that seems like a science documentary that suddenly turned into preacher in one of those mega churches blabbering on about how god reveals himself in the beauty of the universe. Oh the argument from beauty.

I challenged a creationist commentator on the assertions he was making about god since he obviously didn't know what he was talking about. Since I like giving people a taste of their own medicine, I employed a few tactics that theists often use. Read how he gives up as soon as I ask him a tough question that really all theists should be able to easily answer.

Creationist: If there was no God then the universe could not have existed. Its too big to just come out of nothing. You cant have something out of nothing. Im not preaching any faith. But what I do believe is that some supernatural agency is responsible for all that exists. This powerful and wise being is inaccesible, reachless, unattainable. Its existence is seperate from the entire universe. It has no beginning and no end, its timeless.

Me: A timeless disembodied mind is by definition, non functioning, and therefore non existent.

Creationist: If time's beginning is concurrent with the beginning of the universe, as the space-theorem says, then the cause of the universe must be some entity operating in a time dimension completely independent of and pre-existent to the time dimenion of the cosmos. This conclusion tells us that God is not the universe itself, nor God is contained within the universe.

Me: How can time exist before time? You seem to be proposing the idea that god exists in time, if so, does he have an infinite past? As far as I know, there's only one kind of time, and that's time. Your theory to me sounds unexplainable, and I can conclude from that, that it's impossible and unbelievable.

Creationist: What Im saying is that God is indepndent of time, space and matter. The universe had a beginning, because it had a beginning then it must also have a end. A year may seem like a long time to some of us but in Gods reality it might not even be equal to 2 seconds.

Me: Well, you said that god was "operating in a time dimension completely independent of" ours. That doesn't sound like being timeless to me, that sounds like existing in time. So you need to get your story straight. And if a year to god is "equal to 2 seconds" then he exists in time my friend. If a something has a relationship with temporal events, then it exists in time.

Beginnings don't need to have ends either. Do numbers have ends? No! Even you believe time is eternal in the future.

Creationist: Eons could be like just one day in Gods time. When I said God is timeless that doesnt mean that Gods time has anything in common with the cosmos time.

Me: But you're still admitting that god exists in time. So does he have an infinite past?

Creationist: Just because God exists in a seperate time dimension from the cosmos does not mean that he cannot be infinite. Think about it Eons is equal to 1 billion years. But year could be like 1 day in 

Me: I didn't say god is not infinite.Even if a billion years is like 1 minute to god, if he has an infinite past it still would take him an infinite amount of time to come to the present. How do you explain your way out of that logical conundrum?

Creationist: The laws of nature do not apply to God. God does not time travel. He is not Micheal J. Fox.

Me: I'm talking about the laws of logic, not the laws of nature. God is subject to the laws of logic. So you can't scramble your way out of this problem.

Creationist: Our understanding of logic, is nothing compared to Gods logic. Gods knowledge begins where human knowledge stops.

Me: So can god create a rock that's too heavy for him to lift?

Creationist: Typical athiest. Bye.

Me: Ha! Typical theist - run away when you can't handle it.

The End

I love how he thinks that god somehow has super logic that blows our puny mortal logic out of the water. Hopefully this theist learned a lesson, but it's unlikely.

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